{"id":2746,"date":"2022-01-11T11:30:17","date_gmt":"2022-01-11T11:30:17","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/?p=2746"},"modified":"2022-02-23T07:08:25","modified_gmt":"2022-02-23T07:08:25","slug":"another-tale-from-the-ancestors-my-grandmother-rose-and-her-sister-alice","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/2022\/01\/11\/another-tale-from-the-ancestors-my-grandmother-rose-and-her-sister-alice\/","title":{"rendered":"Another tale from the ancestors – My grandmother Rose, and her sister Alice"},"content":{"rendered":"

The case of an unknown photograph…..<\/strong><\/p>\n

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At the outset of this I want to say a big thank you to my co conspirator Carole <\/strong><\/p>\n

who has been a veritable whirlwind of insight with the ability to unearth details I thought completely lost forever all the find a grave memorials have been created by Carole….. a sorceress in the dark and veiled arts of family history research beyond compare
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This is going to take some time to write and as I start, I have no idea how to write this history, finding the details has been a journey of more than 22 years filled with small finds, dead ends,\u00a0 and many pauses. It’s not that I have worked on this continuously, there have been many long pauses, due to frustration, family life, work commitments, and a lot of fun along the way too, just all sorts of life stuff really.<\/p>\n

Oddly or perhaps not, it is in the last two months (October and November 2021)\u00a0 through my good friend Carole and mainly through several of Carole’s extraordinary insights, which have led to some remarkable and subtle finds that this story is here for the telling….and it is such a long tale to tell I have split the telling into two parts. At the outset this story is not complete, probably never will be, there are always little details that surface from time to time and so I will no doubt add to this story over time…….<\/p>\n

As always family history research is a work in progress and anyone who thinks it is simply black and white is not going to come to grips with this kind of research. There are all kinds of resons why family history is so problemetic, not just the finding, checking and cross referencing of records but because we are dealing with human beings. I guess it can be best summed up like this……<\/p>\n

The heart cherishes secrets not worth the telling<\/p>\n

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Memories<\/strong><\/p>\n

Actually the journey is much longer, it goes back to a memory of mine – finding original birth and marriage certificates for Rose in my dad’s bureau when I was very young. They were very delicate, damaged and very old…… my maternal grandmother Rose was born 12th August 1881 Great Yarmouth Norfolk, as of this year (2021) 140 years for the birth certificate……Wow….. As with my paternal and maternal grandfather’s I never met Rose, she passed away in 1962 less than a year before I was born, but as my mother was pregnant with me in 1962, I was born in February 1963…at least my grandmother and I were alive at the same time, I estimate that my Mum would have been around 2 months into her pregnancy with me at the time Rose passed away. I have always been curious as to who she was, what was she like, where did she live, and that for some reason I cannot really explain there has been this overwhelming desire to re discover, to tease back into existence her story.\u00a0 I think I was maybe 6 at the time, possibly younger, when I came across those certificates. Regretfully I was not gentle with these finds and I have to admit to being responsible for causing some serious damage particularly to the birth certificate so that now what I have are but fragments…. Something many years later I would come to deeply regret…<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

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So, here is whats left of her birth certificate……………….. we have the county – Norfolk, her parents Charles and Eliza, her name Rose’ and the date Aug. 12th 1881…..<\/p>\n

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That she passed away before I was born has left me with an odd sensation that I cannot quite describe. Not loss, not sadness, not grief. Since I never met Rose non of those feelings apply. And it is not the same for most of the rest of the tree….. Though there are perhaps a handful of other ancestor’s that give me the same need to know more. Ellen Cass my grandmother on my father’s side is one, though I met Ellen several times that I recall and probably more often than I can remember, also her mother Jane Thompson my great grandmother is another, who will feature in other stories….give me the same need to know more.<\/p>\n

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Memories<\/strong><\/p>\n

A number of years later after dad had retired and my parents had moved back to Torisholme Lancaster and I was visiting from my degree in fine art at the Polytechnic Wolverhampton, dad had a bottle of red wine to share, then later the whiskey came out, Mum would have a gin and tonic, the family tree, also spread out on the table, and we would chat into the wee early hours about what we knew, and more intriguing to me…..what we did not know. I loved those evenings one subject leading on to the next, it was great stuff. At this time we knew that Rose and her sister Alice had been in an orphanage in Leeds in the late 1800’s when they were young, but we did not know the details pertaining to their admission to the orphanage, which orphanage, and certainly the consusus was that any records would have long since been lost, we did not know how long they stayed, when they left, or what the family circumstances might have been to have them admitted to an orphanage. That they had been in an orphanage was a huge thing to me, I have more than a passing interest in this time mainly from an arts perspective, particularly where that art is a social and political commentary of the times, and in researching particular artists I will inevitably wander around the subject into philosophy and art, and the living and social conditions during particular times, as a result I have a huge empathy for social injustice then and now. And a huge admiration for those that have tried to help those in need. Context is a huge thing for me.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n

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At this time we had no documentation proving their admission to an orphanage in Leeds and no idea how to search for such evidence, it was what my mum knew. And from what was left of the birth certificate we had for Rose we had her mothers name Eliza, and from the marriage certificate we had their fathers name and occupation. Knowing he served in the army helped, and we knew when and where Rose and her sister Alice, were born.<\/p>\n

So a few clues…… but puzzling ones<\/p>\n

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One of the puzzles from the start was How did Rose and Alice end up firstly in an orphanage in Leeds ,as Rose and Alice were born in Great Yarmouth Norfolk.\u00a0 and then moving to Lancaster. How and under what circumstances Rose met her future husband Sam is intriguing, something I will come back to….<\/p>\n

It was a mystery<\/p>\n

In researching family history there is a knock on effect from being in a patriarchal dominated world.\u00a0 And Dad did understand this….where we perhaps differ is that he accepted it as normal whereas I do not……So there is a reason for my father to be to a certain extent more interested in tracing his paternal line or to be fair in following the path of least resistance, since that is where he made most of his discoveries. there is a bit of both in this……particularly because of the kind of prejudice and bias in society as a whole, that is…..everything being set up from a patriarchal perspective. So for instance to give an example in brief the bride taking the grooms surname, and as such the implications of property, ownership etc which to me at least I find distasteful to put it mildly, to the point that my partner Julia and I never married, that proved to be something of an issue for my father, I never regretted that, we never divorced never strayed and had 26 wonderful years together until Julia passed away in August 2010.<\/p>\n

To go off on a tangent here, my favorite painting of all time is J.M.W.Turner’s ‘Slave Ship – Slavers throwing the dead and dying overboard, Typhoon coming on’. I so much prefer this original title. First exhibited in 1840……and to put it into context that event is just one year after Rose’s father was born, I love making these connections. For me it brings history to life……much more could be said. And it is a right pain in the arse when researching my maternal family history. So my father focused his energies on achievable goals and I do remember him complaining bitterly about how finding out anything about Rose and Alice and her parents seemed impossible. And even now the story is not complete…… From the outset Rose and Alice fascinated me….perhaps it was being told that in all likelyhood the records were lost destroyed or just not properly kept. Perhaps it was about the challenge to re discover her story. There is a large part of me that will not give in, or give up. Even in my choice of career – being an artist is something that so many people have tried to say…..you will never make a living doing that, even some lecturer’s…. so I wanted to know Rose’s story. I was somewhat motivated. If someone tells me I can’t or won’t, I just tend to smile and say well….we will see….<\/p>\n

I mention this because researching this part of the tree has been incredibly difficult, even Rose and Alice parents have been so problematic to research, compounded by the reason above but also their father’s name was\u00a0 Charles Brown, so even the path of least resistance was difficult as Brown is such a common name. As well as being in the army there were indications of shoemaker as profession perhaps dating to before his enlistment and interestingly a stepson turned up on the 1881 census with the profession apprentice shoemaker, There were also a number of other Charles Brown’s turning up with this profession, and confusion reigned supreme for quite some time with the spelling of the surname turning up as either Brown or Browne, confused further because his birth year varried according to which documents we looked at….. so lot’s of potential lines back with no clear correct line….confusion, frustration continued. It only became completely understandable quite recently when my good friend Carole teased back into knowledge the fact that both Charles’ parents died when he was very young and that he was brought up by – we think close relatives. There was a terrific hint that Carole spotted on Charles militery record which I will come back to in part 2. This is why it is so difficult to write this story as everything is interconnected and you can’t quite see the picture until ever piece of the puzzle is in place. So he thought his father was a Charles Brown. More about that later…….And even further compounded as only much later did Carole and I realise that this journey of research proved even more difficult due to the many fatalities to many families of the time through waves of illness and disease.<\/p>\n

The other thing that fascinated me again tracing back the maternal line is evolution and mitochondria, the fact that our mitochondria trace an unbroken maternal line all the way back in time to ‘mitochondrial Eve’ is fascinating,\u00a0 of course it goes back much further – 3.8 billion years further to\u00a0 L.U.C.A. the Last Universal Common Ancestor. I have taken a DNA test and the results are fascinating….. and that is yet another story to tell.<\/p>\n

The first breakthrough……<\/strong><\/p>\n

I had already found Rose, Alice, and a step son George Adams with their parents living in North Denes North Star Battery near Great Yarmouth on the 1881 census. It shows Charles Brown age 41 born 1839 – occupation Acting Bombardier in the G B Royal Artillery born Norwich Norfolk. Eliza aged 35 born 1846 Diss Norfolk. George Adams (stepson) aged 11 born 1867 Diss – shoemaker, and Alice aged 1. born 1880 Gt. Yarmouth. So this was great stuff and gave us a lot to work with.<\/p>\n

Charles date of birth has been a real headache and has cropped up on different documents with different years…..although a pain it turned out to be a deep clue as to his history. That I now knew where Eliza was born was fantastic at this time I had no idea of Eliza’s surname but to suddenly\u00a0 have George Adams as step son was brilliant as immediately that gave us Eliza’s surname – Adams….. I deduce this for it was common that when born out of wedlock the mothers surname would be given to the new born. I will come back to this story in part 2 of this tale…..for now I still want to concentrate on Rose and Alice……and poor George well he still awaits some research…..I have a suspicion that George was their son but born out of wedlock….<\/p>\n

The first breakthrough about the orphanage was really exciting…..<\/strong><\/p>\n

Whilst researching and knowing that they ended up in Leeds I came across the 1891 census for Mount St Mary’s Convent and Orphanage in Leeds. And listed were Rose Brown and Alice Brown. Aged 9 and 11 both born in Great Yarmouth. It seemed right, but still not absolute proof as such. The dates though seemed to fit.<\/p>\n

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So then I started to search for any information or history about Mount Saint Mary’s Convent and Orphanage, and I came across a history of the Convent written by Helen Kennally. The book is fascinating. At the same time I was also looking for any census that might have Rose and Alice and there parents Charles Brown and Eliza, but I will come back to that shortly. Here is what I found.<\/p>\n

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In brief then this is what the book is about…..<\/p>\n

In 1853 four sisters of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate arrived in Leeds to work at the recently established Mount St Mary’s Chapel in Richmond Street, The Bank, a district largely inhabited by Irish families who had fled from the Great Hunger in Ireland. (a famine caused by the British and led to over a million Irish starving to death) From their temporary convent in Cross Green Lane, the sisters began there work. In July 1853 the first school of the new Mount St Mary’s Parish was formed in the convent cellar which was used as a wash house during the day and converted into a school room at night. From this very humble beginning there evolved a remarkable story.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The sisters had a strong conviction that education would provide a way out of the poverty that they witnessed amongst the Irish families on the Bank. Out of this conviction grew a unique complex of buildings on the summit of Richmond Hill.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

A new convent was built along with elementary schools for boys and girls, an orphanage which was the first one to be established in the Leeds Diocese, and in 1896, St Mary’s College, which was the first catholic secondary school for girls in Leeds. All of these were clustered around the cathedral sized Mount St Mary’s Church.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Based on school records and contemporary accounts the book describes the struggles and successes of the teachers, children and their families, living in what was one of the poorest areas in the city. Also included are interviews and personal memories of past and present pupils and head teachers. Anyone who has a connection with Mount St Mary’s or the Bank, or has an interest in education will find it informative, at times sad and at other times amusing, but always very thought-provoking.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Helen Kennally was born in Leeds. She received her educated at Cockburn High School and then trained as a teacher. Apart from one year in London she taught in Leeds schools until her retirement in 1991. Since retirement much of her time has been devoted to researching the history of the Irish community in Leeds, particularly the families who settled in the district known as the Bank. Along with her husband Danny she has been involved in the campaign for the preservation of Mount St Mary’s Church.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

The book can be obtained directly from Mount St Mary’s History Group c\/o 15 Gledhow Wood Grove, Leeds LS8 1NZ<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0I was intrigued, and felt that I was on the track of something….. I wondered if perhaps any records had survived, well the only way to find out was to try and contact Helen Kennally to find out if the records for the orphanage still existed and where they might be held, and she very kindly wrote back with a contact address for where the records were kept, but informing me that they were incomplete. Well I then wrote the following letter to Leeds Catholic care where the records were held explaining my interest, but with the knowledge that the records for Rose and Alice may be lost…..<\/span><\/p>\n

Here is the letter I wrote…<\/p>\n

Leeds Catholic Care,<\/span><\/span>11 North Grange Road<\/span><\/span>Headingly<\/span><\/span>Leeds 6 2BR<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

June 3th 2008 <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Dear Sir\/Madam,<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

To introduce myself my name is Chris Hankey and for some years my father and I have been researching our family history and have managed to get back to the early 17th<\/sup> century on our paternal side of the family. Sadly my father passed away in 2005, but I am continuing to research my maternal roots and this side is proving more difficult, but I am making some progress. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Recently I came across census returns that show two of my ancestors were admitted to Mount St. Mary\u2019s Orphanage. Here\u2019s the background.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

My mother\u2019s maiden name is Fitzpatrick and her parents were Samuel Fitzpatrick b. 1879 Bradford and Rose Brown b. 12.08.1881 Great Yarmouth Norfolk. Rose married Samuel in Lancaster 27.08.1906 and died 14.07.1962, less than a year before I was born.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

My reason for contacting you is concerning Rose Brown and her sister Alice Brown b. 1880 Great Yarmouth. Their parents were Charles Brown b. abt. 1840 and Eliza. I know very little about Rose and Alice and even less about Charles and Eliza. Charles was an acting bombardier in the G.B. Royal Artillery and it seems that there is also a step son by the name of George Adams which suggests that Eliza may have been previously married or had a child out of wedlock in which case I believe the child would have taken Eliza\u2019s maiden name either is a possibility. <\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

However It\u2019s really all about Rose and Alice Brown as I have discovered they were both admitted to mount St Mary\u2019s Orphanage which is shown on the 1891 census return for England and Wales. I have enclosed a copy. I do not know the exact date when they were admitted and I am hoping to discover the reasons behind this. At the time of the 1891 census Alice would have been approx. 11 and Rose 10 years old. I have also enclosed a copy of the 1881 census which shows Charles Brown, Eliza ,Alice Brown and step son George Adams living together in Great Yarmouth. Norfolk.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

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During my research I stumbled upon a book about the history of Mount St Mary\u2019s Orphanage and schools written by Helen Kennally who I contacted and she suggested that I may be able to find out some information regarding the circumstances of Rose Brown and Alice Brown at the time of their admittance to the orphanage, and perhaps under what circumstances they left. As I have already indicated Rose eventually left the orphanage married and went on to have nine children one of whom was my mother. Alice also eventually left the orphanage and also moved to Lancaster.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I am hoping that the records of the time survive and am wondering if it would be possible for me to visit you to see the records if they have survived. Or if possible copies of any information regarding Rose Brown and Alice Brown to be sent to me.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

I really appreciate your time and any assistance you can spare in looking into this.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Many thanks<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Yours sincerely<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Well I got a reply which was wonderful……<\/strong><\/p>\n

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This was more than I hoped for as always in family research you never know if records are going to survive, I try always to have that in mind……but I could not help hoping for the records to have survived…..and they had, confirming the place and birth of Rose and Alice their date of admission, date of discharge, their address in Great Yarmouth…..and their Father’s name. Immediately it was obvious that something must have happened to their mother, and Charles situation must have been complicated in some way that we did not know….. as this record seems to suggest that Charles was still alive at the time Rose and Alice were admitted to the orphanage……and still living at 35 Beaconsfield Ave. Yarmouth….. Carole who is great at finding census records found Charles Brown boarding with a Maria Smith at 35 Beaconsfield Road as well which also confirms the orphanage records…..<\/p>\n

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Mount St Mary’s orphanage<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Reviewing what is found is always a part of this project, you never know if the path you are following might turn out to be the wrong path…..such a thing has happened to me in a different part of the tree….that to will be the basis of another tale from the ancestors, and also you never know what small un noticed details may in time once noticed lead on to further insights and knowledge.<\/p>\n

Even in reviewing all that we have found out through documenting this there are some small details that may lead me to discover knew connections, right now I notice that on the 1891 census for Mount St. Mary’s convent and Orphanage there\u00a0 are the names of two individuals that might have a connection. I am still somewhat puzzled over how Rose met Samuel John Fitzpatrick – her future husband, so I noticed that there are two individuals in the orphanage one Rose Fitzpatrick aged 18- could Rose and Rose have known each other, might Rose Fitzpatrick be connected in some way to Samuel John Fitzpatrick, and secondly Annie McEvoy age 18 and in my tree I have connections to a Mary McEvoy who married Sam’s father John Andrew Fitzpatrick. So now I will be writing once again to the Catholic care to see if they have any info for these two individuals….<\/p>\n

Call it a gut feeling….or an intuitive leap, but I have this suspicion that my grandmother Rose must have known, been friends with Rose Fitzpatrick aged 18 and that that Rose has a connection with Sam……<\/p>\n

Also yet to be teased out is the information given to me by the Leeds Catholic Care that Rose and Alice would have had to be given letter’s of freedom (I assume from the orphanage)….. that gave them permission to marry. That is an extraordinary thing and I assume it is to do with being in Mount St. Mary’s orphanage. It also leaves a nagging thought about how Rose and Sam met. Did they meet in Leeds, or after Rose moved to Lancaster and what would have prompted that move.<\/p>\n

I also found the 1901 census that shows Rose Brown in Lancaster working as a housemaid at St. Mary’s Presbytery, aged 19 and on the census it show’s that Rose was born in Yarmouth Norfolk. So it seems that Rose had moved to Lancaster perhaps before meeting her future husband Samuel John Fitzpatrick….<\/p>\n

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Just 6 years later Rose married Sam on the 27th June 1906…..so I wonder whether the orphange would have found places of work for Rose and Alice. I am not sure about that, But on the other hand I can’t see them just kicking them out the orphanage door. <\/span>Alice in fact left the orphanage 4 years earlier than Rose…..that must have been very hard on Rose. But maybe Alice was able to put in a good word for her sister to find work as a housemaid……<\/p>\n

In September 2021 I went to visit Carole and my cousin Linda to see my grandfather’s WW2 service medals that between us we had mange to return to the family after they had been missing for 40 plus years. That story from the ancestors is also part of this blog ….click – here is the link<\/a> – to that story from the ancestor’s<\/p>\n

As usual the conversation moved on to family history and as is often the case\u00a0 to my grandmother Rose, I had mentioned that Rose passed away only months before I was born and that so far after more than 30 years of searching I still had no photograph of Rose and I think that spurred Carole\u00a0 on to helping me track down a photo, I remember Carole being surprised that my Mum did not have any photo’s of her mother Rose, and I have often wondered about this too.<\/p>\n

Carole’s research kept digging up more and more info. Not just concerning Rose but all my grand parents and great grandparents but for the purposes of this story I will just stick with Rose.<\/p>\n

Firstly that Rose spent her final months in Nazereth House care home Lancaster where she passed away 14th July 1962 aged 80 and was buried in Lancaster cemetery. Her sister Alice never married and I wonder if that has anything to do with letters of freedom to marry or a choice, probably I will never know. Alice passed away 3rd September 1956 aged 76 at Moor Hospital Lancaster and probate shows she was single. Rose husband Sam passed away in 1956 aged 78 Lancaster.<\/p>\n

Carole had written to Nazareth House archives\u00a0 hoping to find relatives or contacts that might have a photo of Rose. This is the most amazing thing. Carole made contact with my 1st cousin 1 x removed living in Morecambe…..Margaret phoned Carole and sent her the most amazing photo ….not just of her\u00a0 but of her wedding showing Rose, her husband Sam and Rose sister Alice. In the same week Carole found that all three are buried next to each other in Lancaster cemetery.<\/p>\n

I cannot describe what this photo means to me…..I always hoped to have an image of Rose but never did I ever think to have such an image of her wedding day with Sam and Alice….<\/p>\n

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The missing photo<\/p>\n

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From left to right Rose Brown, Samuel John Fitzpatrick, Alice Brown, and Edward Fitzpatrick standing at the back.<\/p>\n

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The story is not complete, I hope to visit my cousin Margaret later in 2022 to see if I can find more images, There is also the matter of Rose letter of freedom – to marry, I cannot help but wonder if the letter survives, and of course how Rose and Sam met. One thing my cousin Margaret mentioned was that Rose always complained that the photo made the dark band of her dress look far to dark in the photo….only a small thing that comment…..but it is something along with her story that brings her to life for me, I only have a digital image so I am really looking forward to seeing the original…..<\/p>\n

I also found Rose and Sam on the 1911 census this time in Wales…..Cwmamman about 12 miles North of Abertawa Caerfyrddin Cymru<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

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And again confirming Rose birth to be Yarmouth Norflok. Rose and Sam had 9 children together one of whom was my mother……9 children I mean wow I can hardly imagine how that was knowing as I do now how difficult it was bringing up 3 children……<\/p>\n

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Find a Grave memorials<\/strong><\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/232571158\/rose-fitzpatrick<\/a><\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/232571259\/samuel-john-fitzpatrick<\/a><\/p>\n

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And then there are the parents of Rose and Alice…..my great grandparents – Charles and Eliza\u00a0 that also is part of this story, but perhaps I will leave that for part two of this ‘Tale From The Ancestors’, especially as after finally visiting Great Yarmouth just last month.So there will be a part 2 to this tale which will delve a little deeper into Rose and Alice’ parents and further back still.<\/p>\n

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Part 2<\/strong><\/p>\n

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I love this photo, Rose’ wedding day, I love that I can look into an image of their eye’s although the photo is just a snap shot the photo is evidence of the lives they lived, somehow just pausing to contemplate their lives, their memories, their hopes, thoughts, what they liked, what they did not, what made them laugh….. it’s all….though not known, it is implied….<\/p>\n

I cannot resist sharing just one photo. that is not entirely related to this story. <\/strong><\/p>\n

This photo is part of the next generation,\u00a0 The wedding of Alice Fitzpatrick daughter of Rose and Sam and one of my mother’s sisters. <\/strong><\/p>\n

It is such a lovely photo, is it not…..<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Alice Fitzpatrick wedding\u00a0 from the left we have……Cecilia, Norman Curwen, Alice Fitzpatrick, Wilfred Curwen, friend of the groome<\/strong><\/p>\n

This, part 2 of the tale starts tracing the history of Charles Brown and Eliza Adams the parents of Rose, her sister Alice, and George who according to the 1881 censes was there step brother. Charles and Eliza are\u00a0 my great grandparents. Their story has been incredibly difficult to unearth,\u00a0 and as with part one I am finding this quite challenging to write. I have spent many years researching, trying to find anything and what I did find was several possible ancestral lines back with no conclusive proof. Often leaving me frustrated, but I always sensed there was more to know, just a gut reaction and my own tenacious nature. And in the end builds upon the knowledge my parents had and research they did.<\/p>\n

What we did know was – and this is to recap on part one – that Rose and Alice were admitted to Mount St Mary’s orphanage in Leeds when they were very young, known by my parents, though not the particular orphanage and later born out through, the research my co conspirators Carole and I did, finds like the 1891 census and through documented proof from the Catholic care archives in Leeds.<\/p>\n

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Charles was in the army as stated on the 1881 census, as an acting bombardier in the Royal Artillery Norfolk Brigade at the same time we knew nothing of what happened to Eliza maybe she passed away, but we could not find any details for this. At the time Rose and Alice were admitted to the orphanage Charles was still alive and living at 35 Beaconsfield Road Great Yarmouth Norfolk, but there was no sign of Eliza. So it was something of a puzzle. In December 2021 after some remarkable finds I decided – and this is after all the\u00a0 help from my good friend Carole, to visit Great Yarmouth. I wanted to see what else I could find and also just to visit the places where they lived, if indeed any still existed, walk\u00a0 the streets,\u00a0 along the beach wondering if Rose and Alice had done the same. It was my first visit to Great Yarmouth. I also wanted to photograph the places we had recently found where Charles had lived…..and this is 35 Beaconsfield Road as it now is….. it is the one with the tree between the front door and the downstairs window, We knew that this house still existed as Carole had found an image of it on google Earth, still to stand outside the place was something….intriguing, research in all of this is key but visiting these places brings the reality of the story to life….<\/p>\n

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Several years ago through my good friend Bridget back in 2005 if memory serves and at about the same time I myself acquired my fathers family history research notes I was able to acquire Charles Brown’s military service record, Bridget had been able to acquire it during one of those free weekend offers on an ancestry website, at the time I did not look to closely at it being relatively new to family history research, I was not quite aware of all the subtle details or how to build upon them so for quite some time the records were a curiosoty and were filed away.\u00a0 More recently my good friend Carole also acquired Charles militery service record and was able to tease out some really intriguing details…..and actually we found an awful lot, including 2 versions of his service record, where he served, promotions,\u00a0 and demotions, confirmation of his marital status, where he married Eliza, which led to me finding their mattiage certificate, confirmation of Eliza’s maiden name, medical records and discharge records, military pension – which was I have to say quite mean considering his long years of service (27 years 21 days)…..well that is just typical.<\/p>\n

The following images are Charles Brown’s military record…..<\/p>\n

Carole found this for us quite recently and I had no idea that Charles first volunteered to serve with the 1st or West Norfolk militia on 11th December 1857, being released from this to full enlistment in 1859 in the Royal Artillery Norfolk Brigade. This transfer had to be approved and is indicated as such on his enlistment papers.<\/p>\n

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Enlistment and military service record….<\/p>\n

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It is quite astounding just how much information this gives us even to the time of day he enlisted. 6th April 1859. 8 a.m. …… just great stuff. But also the parish where he was born that was a big find. St. John de Sepulcre Norwich Norfolk, and that at the time of his enlistment he was not married. And he gives his age as 20 and again the profession that is given is shoemaker which matches the 1881 census. Intriguing that he signed the form, so I guess he was literate…..<\/p>\n

Also the record was ammended in 1879 – faintly the following can be made out…’permitted to continue to serve beyond 21 years and ????? assented to the ????? ????? ?????> of ?????<\/p>\n

signed and dated 79 (1879)<\/p>\n

Interestingly I have 2 versions of this page….here is the second version…. which again shows the added writing only much clearer and with slightly varying text – ‘permitted to continue to serve Hereby consenting to the provisions of part 2 of the a.d.VR. act of 1879 ou 27th July 1880…’.<\/p>\n

Version 2<\/p>\n

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Terrific to have a description of his appearance. 5ft 6, eyes grey, hair brown, complexion fresh age 20….. and that he had a tattoo his left arm……looks like the initials of his name…..maybe<\/p>\n

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The next two images give a detailed history of Charles service record.<\/p>\n

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Sevice record continued<\/p>\n

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And a synopsis of Charles service at home and abroad……<\/p>\n

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….And here, married with leave 14th January 1879<\/p>\n

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I find this fascinating…….. that he was promoted and demoted several times, and transfered, is intriguing and on one occasion imprisoned. I get the impression he was something of a troubled or at least a fiesty character in this. The defining points of his service are as follows…..<\/p>\n

The 1881 census has Charles as acting bombardier in the royal artillery Norfolk brigade confirmed here and also shown on his service record as part of Her Majesty’s Indian Militery Forces.<\/p>\n

On first enlisting he was a Gunner 1st April 1859 to 23rd March 1861 and then promoted to Bombardier 24th March 1861 to 17th Oct 1862.<\/p>\n

At this point he seems to have been progressing but after being posted in India on 27th Septemeber 1859 to 30th September 1875, he is then awaiting trial between 18th Oct – 20th Oct. 1862 and reduced in rank to gunner, and forfeit of, I presume, pay. Charles is then Promoted again in 1865 to Bombardier and then in 1865 he attains his highest rank being promoted to Corporal on the 24th August 1965….And then he is awaiting trial again !!!!! 19th\u00a0 January\u00a0 1867 Charles is then tried and reduced in rank again to gunner on 11 February 1867….. what was he like….what did he do. Probably I will never know. Again awaiting trial 31st March to 5th April 1869 and this time tried and imprisoned from 6th April to 26th April 1869……I guess they had had enough of whatever it was he was doing to get himself into trouble…. I would love to know the details of this….His military history also shows that he was transferred and I wonder if there was a particular clash of personalities that led to his troubled service.<\/p>\n

In 1875 he is posted back home and it was sometime 6 years in fact before he was promoted….once again to Bombardier…… 19th July 1876 just 2 months shy of a year since being posted back home. Neither his imprisonment nor his promotion seemed to stop him though as again he is awaiting trial on 2nd Novemeber 1877, tried and reduced in rank again to gunner 8th November 1877.\u00a0 In 1879 he was permitted to extend his service and it seems he managed to stay out of trouble for the rest of his service in the R.A. and once again being promoted to Corporal on the 24th October 1883. In 1886 Charles petitioned to be discharged from service and was discharged in consequence of having served 27 years and 21 days….. 6 years longer than required 27th April 1886….<\/p>\n

In the end he served his first year in Norfolk, followed by 15 years in India and 11 years back in Norfolk where at some point he met Eliza.<\/p>\n

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I would really like to know where he was stationed for his 15 years and 221 days\u00a0 in India from 22 September 1859 to 30th April 1875. All very interesting it also provided info about his wife Eliza, which was wonderful. That they married with leave 14th January 1879 Isle of Sheppey is a fab find.<\/p>\n

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So the thing is this in no way gives any indication as to why Rose and Alice ended up in an orphanage in leeds. The main thing here is that it does confirm who Charles married as is stated on his militery record\u00a0 Eliza Adams…..and given leave to marry on the 14th January 1879. I still knew very little about what happened to Eliza she seemed to just disappear from the records. The main thing I was able to do was to trace Eliza’s ancestry back, now that I had confirmation of her surname from Charles military records and the 1881 census that showed stepson George Adams. I still know next to nothing about George and I do wonder if Charles is the father and that George was born out of wedlock…..something else to research. I knew very little about Charles ancestry and I just could not discover anything for a very long time any searching I did ended in complete frustration and so I followed the path of least resistance and was able to trace Eliza’s ancestry. I do not have any stories to the same detail until very recently for Eliza’s ancestors and then no where near as detailed. But I did find her parents, grand parents and on her maternal line I have traced back several generations.<\/p>\n

It is often the way with me that I will find a historical document save it to file and forget that I have it…..it usually occurs when I have a breaqk from family history research and so I re found in a file Charles medical discharge record and I include it here as I think it is interesting to note that he was discharged with no indications of any health issues. And again his intended address is 18 Aryle Street Great Yarmouth.<\/p>\n

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With Carole’s fabulous detective skills Carole discovered Eliza’s death certificate and indeed what happened to Charles, and although the details for why Rose and Alice ended up in Leeds are still not really known it is understandable why they did end up in an orphanage. Just why Leeds….That connection still bugs me.<\/p>\n

Carole discovered that Eliza passed away in 1886, ……her death certificate is dated 27th July 1886. and she was buried 30th July 1886. This is not long after Charles was discharged. Eliza passed away from pnuemonia, and I wonder if Eliza was not well at the time Charles applied for discharge and did so to care for his wife and children, it seems a reasonable conjecture.<\/p>\n

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Eliza passed away at 21 Garfield Terrace North Denes and Charles was present…..I have a slight nagging reservation regarding Garfield Terrace as it is not in North Denes but a fairly long walk from North Denes, and is in Caister on sea, but there is a Garfield Road, and that is literally just round the corner from 35 Beaconsfield Road….\u00a0 My son and I did walk and found Garfield Terrace and there we found a number of houses that were linked by various alley ways but the houses on Garfield Terrace numbered only 1 to 12. It is of couse possible that they were demolished, but I have not been able to verify that.<\/p>\n

The death certificate that Carole found was pivotal to tracing\u00a0 Charles ancestry.\u00a0 for two reasons. In my fathers notes he had Charles baptism occuring at St.John de Sepulcre Norwich Norfolk which is stated on Charles military record and importantly here through Carole\u00a0 we have a huge clue to Charles ancestry, I think this one find has been absolutely crucial – that his middle name is Thomas, that really is a big discovery on all the other documentation we have on Charles his middle name is absent and all the ancestral lines back except for one, I have never come across another reference to Charles middle name. And again Carole…WOW thank you for finding this…..that he is referred to as an army pensioner further confirms the military record is his……great stuff…..and again ….thank you Carole – You are a sorceress…..and I wonder if Charles moved to 35 Beaconsfield Road after Eliza passed away. It seems they may have moved more than once. On Charles military record it states his intended address upon discharge was to be 18 Argyle Terrace Great Yarmouth……whether that changed abruptly or they moved I do not know.<\/p>\n

Charles…well I do not know the whole\u00a0 circumstances…..just yet, he eventually lived his last days in the Union work house in Great Yarmouth where he died. Dispite his 27 years service for his country, his pension was so meagre that he could not support himself or his daughters. So this is where he died, having given 27 years of service to his country, having lost his wife, having through circumstances not yet known, having his two daughters admitted to an orphanage…..<\/p>\n

This is a plan view of the Union workhouse where Charles Brown spent his last years. We have not been able to find any records for dates of admission, interestingly the Road at the top of the image is Bescaonsfield Road where Charles lived at the time Rose and Alice where in the orphanage in Leeds….<\/p>\n

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And this is what the Union workhouse looks like today…<\/p>\n

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Charles death certificate which shows he passed away 5th February 1898 in the Union workhouse aged 67.<\/p>\n

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December 2021 my son and I decided we would visit Great Yarmouth, I had the excuse of having to do some art conservation work in London, and we decided to make a trip of it staying in London for a few days to do the work meet a very old friend Ian who I have known for many years as we studied fine art at Northwich in Cheshire and for our degrees in fine art at the Polytechnic Wolverhampton, we had a fab couple of days visiting various museums including the Horniman museum and the natural history museum.<\/p>\n

Interlude for a different kind of fun<\/strong><\/p>\n

Visiting the Horniman Museum Butterfly House<\/p>\n

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Visiting the Natural History Museum<\/strong><\/p>\n

Blue Whale skeleton and fossil Icthyosaur with ammonite fossils buried in the Icthyosaur fossil<\/p>\n

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And then off\u00a0 we went catching the train to Great Yarmouth and to my utter delight it passed through Diss where Eliza’s parents had lived, I will come back to that shortly….<\/p>\n

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Walking along the beach at North Denes Great Yarmouth….could not help wonder if Rose and Alice walked here…..<\/p>\n

While walking along the beach we spotted two seals close to the shore possibly looking for a place to rest up. When I next spoke to Carole she suggested we named them Rose and Alice. We did<\/p>\n

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……and to continue…..<\/strong><\/p>\n

Carole again making discoveries left right and center had found the cemetery where Charles and Eliza were buried along with the plot numbers for each grave and with a bit of detective work had located maps showing the sections in the cemetery were they could be located. So this was one of the main reasons for the visit to Great Yarmouth I was hoping that we would be able to locate the actual plots for Charles and Eliza.<\/p>\n

They were both buried in the Old New Cemetery in Great Yarmouth, but not in the same section I suspect that Charles location was due to having passed away in the workhouse. Charles was located in section W and Eliza in section L\u00a0 Carole and I were both contacting the records office in Great Yarmouth to see if we could find a detailed layout for section W and section L which would identify by plot number each grave, if such records had survived it might just allow us to find were they were. Carole had found there exact plot numbers. Charles Brown burial place Great Yarmouth New Cemetery, section W, grave 454, interment number 11391 consecrated. Eliza Brown nee Adams Great Yarmouth New Cemetery, section L, grave 316<\/p>\n

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This was the first layout for the cemetery which shows sections W where Charles is buried and L where Eliza is buried.<\/p>\n

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though we knew that there was no headstone it seemed completely possible to find Eliza’s grave…..\u00a0 first day of searching happened before we recieved the detailed plot map, we just decided to go and have an explore. Our plan to just walk up and down the isles and see if there was a headstone. I can on occasion rather like cemeteries, not all of them but this one was very interesting one of those quite peaceful places with a good feel to the place, It was interesting how in places it was so overgrown and in others quite well kept, and we took a chance that maybe there was a headstone, but after a lot of searching. though there were several headstones with the name Brown and Browne non of them matched so we just enjoyed finding other possible realtives…..and photographing some of the more interesting headstones…..like this one, I found this quite, well it made me smile for though the statue had lost it’s head a pigeon provided an alternative….. and no this is not a relative….<\/p>\n

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We then acquired a detailed map of section W where Charles is buried and again we knew there would be no headstone due to his circumstances, but also the records stated no headstone indicated. It took a while to track down this map and we were warned that the plot numbers for section W were only sparsley known….. It turns out that we have no idea for the exact location though we did search….<\/p>\n

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Once we had these maps we had a better chance to at least try and find Eliza’s plot and we did, I could not quite believe that this journey all this research and suddenly we find where Eliza is burried.\u00a0 It was odd, no feelings of sadness or anything really. Very pleased and happy to have got this far, to have this story to tell and to write it down down. It’s a bit like turning a marble block into a sculpture, in a way the scuplure is already in there the art is in removing all the unnecassary bit’s. After seeing the plot map for section W there was little hope to find Charles exact plot though with a bit of thought and given the plot numbers that were shown it might be possible to have an educated guess as to which part of the section he may be in. I have not done so just yet.<\/p>\n

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Find a Grave memorials<\/strong><\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/211767583\/eliza-brown<\/a><\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/233043698\/charles-thomas-brown<\/a><\/p>\n

So their they are my grand parents….. Eliza on the left and Charles on the right, you can see from the photo of section W where somewhere charles is buried, and that there are very few headstones and though we had his plot number 454, locating it would be difficult unless we found a more detailed plot map. Eliza on the other hand we found relatively easily once we got into a method which was a combination of finding\u00a0 a similar layout of plots as indicated on the map and counting plots from both sides of section L. I was frankly astounded to see there was a curb memorial I could not contain my excitment and called Carole to let her know we had found Eliza’s plot and she was over the moon, squeecked in delight if memory serves and I said I was thinking of doing a bit of clean up work around the edges just to see if I could find an inscription – It could be that Carole suggested it or at least put this in my mind as I believe Carole asked me if I could see any sign of an inscription. That perhaps Eliza’s name would be engraved had not yet occured to me and that would be a final confirmation. I was a bit trepidacious about this as I did not want to be accused of disturbing a grave but Carole thought it would be okay, just someone looking after a relatives grave……. but when I found the name I thought oh bugger it’s not Eliza, at first I thought maybe we had the location wrong, but I had an idea on how we might just check, my idea was that there was a clear inscription for who was buried in plot 318, plot 315 was unmarked so that was no help, but with 318 if we could confirm the name on the headstone for plot 318 and thereby link it to it’s plot number on the map that would be a good way to confirm that we were in the right place, that the next but one plot was Eliza’s so I called Carole with this idea and she agreed and said she would do a little digging to confirm this idea. while waiting for Carole to work her magic I was re-checking that the plots matched the map and again it was the only patern of plots that matched both map and ground. We also talked about the fact that graves are re used after a time….a sort of multi story parking system, and, if you will forgive the humour in that, then great. Amazingly Carole called back within minutes to confirm the idea I had concerning plot 318. Carole and I had a bit of a chat about it and came to the conclusion that this had to be Eliza’s plot……as I say she is just a wee bit deeper. and also confirms the cemetery record that there was no headstone for Eliza.<\/p>\n

So how crazy is this. One of the reasons at least recently (for I always have, and continue to….)\u00a0 feel a great deal of empathy and connection to this story is this, my partner Julia passed away in 2010 aged 45, I was Julia’s primary carer as she wanted to be at home and I was there when she died….. we have 3 children, two daughters and a son. I say recently…..Yet the need to tease this story back into existence has always been and continues to be an obsession…….and started even before I met Julia…. It is odd that as this story was teased back into existence and with every discovery, how it seems to reverberate with my own life story….not the details….not the military service, just the connection to those immense, defining\u00a0 life changing moments, and how they fundamentally change us….. He chose the military, perhaps out of little choice, I chose art and about that there is no choice……<\/p>\n

It is perhaps interesting to see some of the back and forth chat I have with Carole regarding family history research here is a snipet of how things go…..We often chat about the orphanage, trying to work out the circumstances because still non of this research answers the question of why Mount St Mary’s convent and orphanage in Leeds.<\/p>\n

Carole…..<\/strong>Hi there – I put a question on RootsChat ? if anyone knew why children living in Great Yarmouth would go to a children’s home in Leeds. <\/span><\/p>\n

One answer so far saying it was probably the closest Catholic children’s home and posting this link (which you may have seen before)<\/span><\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.childrenshomes.org.uk\/LeedsStMary\/<\/p>\n

Me….<\/strong>.Oh wow…..that had never occured to me at all…..no I have not seen this particular page before something very similar though, <\/span>and of course there was always an awful lot of prejudice against catholics, <\/span>so yes this is as good a reason for them being at Mount St Mary’s as any I can think of…..really good to be able to include this… \"🙂\"<\/span><\/span>And that puts back in my mind that I would like to have a photo of the orphanage to add to part 1…..<\/span>Not sure if you have seen this it is a plan view of the union workhouse in Great Yarmouth. <\/span>The road at the top of the image is Beaconsfield Road where Charles lived at the time when Rose and Alice where in the orphanage<\/span><\/p>\n

Carole….<\/strong>Thanks. I think that has to be that it was the closest orphanage – I can’t think of another reason. I suppose we are thinking that there would be somewhere closer – but in those days there may not have been.<\/span><\/p>\n

Me…..<\/strong>They were fairly new institutions I think though poor houses did exist way before….Well I am happy to accept this reason especially with the catholic side to the story<\/span><\/p>\n

I just found this on youtube https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Yt_Fkw0Q39g&ab_channel=ChristinaCroft<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Carole…..<\/strong>OH MY GOOD GRIEF – I was just this second going to send that to you!!!!!<\/span><\/p>\n

Me…<\/strong>Flipping eck…this story just wants to be told \"🙂\"<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

Carole….<\/strong>Ang on … were Charles and Eliza Roman Catholic? St John de Sepulchre is Church of England … am I missing or forgetting something?<\/span><\/p>\n

Me…<\/strong>Ah yes you are right At least that is where Charles was baptised…..<\/span><\/p>\n

Carole…<\/strong>Just noticed that the orphanage document shows Rose and Alice were baptised at St Mary’s Beaconsfield – so definitely CofE.<\/span><\/p>\n

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So they were paid for children from other areas. So Who paid for Rose and Alice…….another mystery…..
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Me…<\/strong>Yes indeed, I picked up on that in that wonderful youtube video, I am going to ask if I can share it to my story as background info……I wonder if someone had to pay for Rose and Alice, I wonder in Eliza or Charles had provision for this, perhaps there are relatives that we do not know about who paid for this if so they may have organised it, or perhaps it was someone who new Charles from his military days….. Ah so many questions……it is fascinating.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

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Carole…<\/strong>That would I think be in the orphanage records – but assume that the admission\/discharge one is the only surviving record?<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Me…<\/strong>I assume that must be so as it is the only one they sent……If the opportunity arrises I may try and arrange a visit to speak to someone who might shed light on why Rose and Alice ended up there<\/span><\/div>\n
Me….<\/strong>I am fairly sure this is the same cemetary that Charles and Eliza are buried in….. https:\/\/www.edp24.co.uk\/news\/weird-norfolk-great-yarmouth-bodysnatchers-1184290<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
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Carole….<\/strong>Looks like that is the churchyard<\/span><\/div>\n
OOps ..<\/span><\/div>\n
Me…<\/strong>….<\/strong>hope they did not pinch Eliza \"🙂\"<\/span><\/span><\/div>\n
Carole…<\/strong>looks like that is about St Nicholas Churchyard, and Charles and Eliza are at Yarmouth New Cemetery … but if body snatching went on at the church it will have done at the cemetery too.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Me…<\/strong>what with body snatchers and witches……this is an interesting place<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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While walking around and exploring the cemetry and at another enterance near to the minster is the following plaque. Not only that there were grave robbers, body snatchers….Wow<\/div>\n
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Carole…<\/strong>Crikey yes. Eliza was buried 50 years later so hopefully they had better security then!<\/span><\/div>\n
Me…<\/strong>…..<\/strong>I know it’s not really a laughing matter but flipping eck……<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
Carole…<\/strong>https:\/\/www.bbc.co.uk\/news\/uk-england-norfolk-1544445<\/div>\n
Think Eliza is safe …<\/span><\/div>\n
How did they stop body snatchers? Image result Their activities, and those of the London Burkers who imitated them, resulted in the passage of the Anatomy Act 1832. This allowed unclaimed bodies and those donated by relatives to be used for the study of anatomy, and required the licensing of anatomy teachers, which essentially ended the body snatching trade.<\/span><\/div>\n
Me…<\/strong>Fascinating…..I knew that Leonardo had cadavers to draw and study so it’s an ancient tradition of sorts<\/span><\/div>\n
Carole…<\/strong>Had another reply on RootsChat …<\/span><\/div>\n
There didn’t seem to be that many orphanages in the Great Yarmouth area at that time and those that were there were fairly small, so there may not have been any places available for them both. There was a general desire to place children in institutions other than workhouses, which included into various orphanages and certified schools – see http:\/\/www.childrenshomes.org.uk\/CS\/<\/a><\/span> It seems as if few Great Yarmouth poor relief records survived wartime bombing. The Poor Law Union may have boarded them out to wherever there was a place. Some orphanages had quite strict admission criteria (both parents had to be dead, have been legally married when children born etc…), so maybe the one in Leeds was not so stringent in who it admitted. The other aim of such organisations was to provide training for girls (and boys in Boys establishments), so that they would be able to take up occupations or go into service and thereby support themselves. Some establishments were non-denominational and run by philanthropists, while others offered a religious up-bringing, presumably such as this one. Some were charities, but many operated as a business <\/span>and if they offered a cheaper alternative to that which was available locally, then I suppose the Poor Law Union would opt for that in order to reduce its costs. There were also homes catering for specific trades, though this might depended on the father being deceased rather than the mother. Would the army have had any input into the placings ? Could the father have been posted up to the Leeds area ? Was the mother’s family Catholic ? I have a family of Catholic father, Anglican mother, who baptised a child as both Catholic and Anglican.<\/span><\/div>\n
Me…<\/strong>Aye, that makes perfect sense. I wonder who made the decision for Rose and Alice….I wonder if Charles would have made this decision as he was according to the admittance record still at 35 Beaconsfield Road…..perhaps he was in the process of moving into the workhouse….something we may never know….<\/span><\/div>\n
Me….<\/strong>Some more interesting history. I had a look to see if Argyle Street was still there, and found this article…. https:\/\/www.edp24.co.uk\/lifestyle\/property\/photo-gallery-remembering-30-years-since-the-end-of-the-738790<\/a><\/span><\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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So we finally have something of a plausible explanstion as to why Rose and Alice were placed in Mount St. Mary’s convent and orphanage. It may well have been the only one available that could accommodate both sisters. How terrible it would have been for them if they had been taken to separate orphanages perhaps never to meet again……. So at least they were together…. One of the most poigiant things that happened was during the week that Carole found the wedding photo of Rose with her husband Sam and her sister Alice….. and this is something quite amazing to me is that Carole found where Rose was buried and that Rose, her husband and her sister Alice are all buried next to each other in Lancaster cemetery.<\/div>\n
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And it seems one puzzle inevitable leads on to another Rose and Alice were CofE and the orphanage was a catholic institution….which is interesting, though I doubt very much that they would have turned away two young girls for such a reason…..at least I hope they would not. That there stay and education would have to have been paid for is a brand new discovery. So who did pay for this. It has become clear that Charles was raised by close family, we now know that both his parents died when he was very young. It seems he may not have known this as on his marriage certificate it has his father a Charles brown, we now know it was not….<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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I cannot leave out of this story at least in brief what we finally discovered about Charles parents. This was so difficult to track down, his surname – ‘Brown(e)’, his pre militery occupation – shoemaker, I had pieced together one or two genealogies but without any conclusive proof. There turned out to be three distinct clues which led Carole and I to finally figure it out. My father’s family history notes had a reference to a baptisimal record for Charles Brown stating he was baptised at St. John De Sepulcre in Norwich, and this tied in with the stated baptisimal record on his militery service record spotted by Carole and I…so that cross referencing was a big start, we then were delving into the baptisimal records and of course there were several records for Charles Brown but only one matched the baptism at St. John de Sepulcre and with a date that matches his date of birth on his\u00a0 militery record. The only snag was that this Charles brown had a middle name Thomas that we had not encountered anywhere else, we now believe that Charles in all likelyhood may not have known his parents, as on the Baptisimal record his parents we discovered were a William Valentine Brown 1795-1844 and Sarah Johnson who died 1842. So Charles lost both his parents – his father when he was 5 and his mother when he was 3 and there is a hint to this on his militery record with an alternative next of kin which was subsequently crossed out making the deciphering almost impossible. We believe this references who brought him up. And I admit this still needs some research…….One thing of note is that William Valentine’s occupation was musician…… William and Sarah had 9 children and there is a hint that Sarah may have died giving birth or soon after……..<\/div>\n
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Part 3 ….. on going….<\/strong><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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We only had a limited amount of time in Norfolk and time was pressing. Carole kept finding things for me to go and see, I already knew who Eliza’s parents were and where they had lived, which is why I was so pleased to have passed through Diss on the way to Great Yarmouth. And Carole continued to find more and more info to check out. In particular Carole contacted the church administrator for St, Mary’s church Diss with…..’Hi Chris – I had a reply from the administrator at St Mary’s Church, Diss and sadly she said there is no record of William and Sophia Adams. I’m assuming of course that it is correct that they are buried there – the information came from Ancestry trees’ However after a bit more digging Carole discovered there had been an error…. I had a look at Sophia and William yesterday and managed to find their burial records on Family Search. They are buried in Diss Cemetery, not the churchyard (trees on Ancestry, which I thought may not be correct, have them in St Mary’s Church – and it is the administrator there that I contacted). I can see why the error occurred – the burial records on Family Search span several hundred years include both the churchyard and the cemetery. Sophia and William don’t appear on the churchyard records, and I found them in the cemetery ones (attached). I was going to contact the council to find out the plots numbers, but they had closed yesterday afternoon so I’ll try again on Monday.<\/span><\/div>\n
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Diss cemetery records<\/strong><\/div>\n
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Sophia Adams nee Baldry buriel record<\/strong><\/div>\n
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William Adams buriel record<\/strong><\/div>\n
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Carole had been in touch with Diss town council and had a reply giving Sophia and William’s location at Diss cemetery. Sophia Adams is in plot C458. William Adams is in plot D449….. And they sent maps.<\/p>\n

\"\"\u00a0\u00a0 Section D. William Adams plot d449 and Section C. Sophia Baldry plot C458
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Find a Grave memorials<\/strong><\/div>\n
https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/236550568\/sophia-adams<\/a><\/div>\n
https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/236550172\/william-adams<\/a><\/div>\n
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Carole also discovered that Sophia’s mother Mary Reed was buried at Roydon Parish Church. This was really fascinating I had already traced my maternal line as followa Mum – Rose Brown – Eliza Adams – Sophia Baldry – Mary Reed – Anna Loyall – Anna Taylor but now I was in completely different territory,\u00a0 locating some of their graves…..quite extraordinary.<\/div>\n
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The church of St. Remigious Roydon was the next place we wanted to visit along with Diss cemetery if we had time<\/strong><\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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One of only 4 churches in the UK with this name and the unusual round tower is also a fair rare feature most prevalent in Norfolk, there being 140 or so, Sufflok has 40 odd and there are a few elsewhere in the UK. Information kindly passed on by the church\u00a0 warden Andrew who Carole and I had been in contact with and I arranged to meet with Andrew who had informed us that there were some detailed maps of the church yard with named plots that we could have a look at. Our enquiry was regarding the burial plots of his 3 x great grandparents – Benjamin Baldry who according to the burial register for Roydon was buried on 8 August 1828 aged 49 and his wife Mary Baldry who was buried on 21 October 1858 aged 85, and Carol had sent an e mail enquiry to Andrew with the following reply…..<\/div>\n
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Hello Carole, you and Chris have already done the first thing I advise people to do, that is consult the burial register at the county archive. We only keep the current and last used, approx 40 years.<\/div>\n
We do have a plan showing old stones that were ledgeble when it was drawn up, 50 odd years ago. So there may be Baldrys with a stone recorded, if not there is no way of knowing.<\/div>\n
I\u2019ll ask our village historian if she has anything on the family.<\/div>\n
Andrew.<\/div>\n<\/div>\n
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Well we made arrangements to meet at St Remigius on a cold wet windy day….Andrew is a very interesting person, with a great deal of local history knowledge. Although we had said we would meet at the church Andrew seeing the weather as it was decided to come and find us. We had started to walk when this car pulled up along side us and this bloke who turned out to be Andrew said…’are you Chris’. I was quite taken aback with this wondering who on earth would know me here. a moment later Andrew introduced himself, I must admit it was an oddly humerous meeting just the sort I like and a\u00a0 very welcome one at that\u00a0 as the weather was turning quite bad and the rain was not going to stop any time soon. We had a good long chat once we got into the church and then Andrew asked if we wanted to see the maps. I was not surprised to see them in the form of scrolls. In fact it was fab and reminded me distinctly of the indiana Jones films…..<\/div>\n
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Me Andrew and the scrolls<\/strong><\/div>\n
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The most amazing discovery then emerged and as the realisation dawned I could not quite believe it. We were looking for Benjamin Baldry and Mary Reed, but they were nowhere to be found and as you can see, not all the plots have been identified later as we walked around the cemetery the unknown plots were of course the ones without headstones. But to my utter astonisment there was a Baldry marked on the map and Andrew was sure there was also a headstone… Thomas Baldry. At this point I had no idea who Thomas Baldry Buried 1793 was.<\/div>\n
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Andrew then took us out to find the plot\u00a0 and sure enough there it was. In this image it is quite difficult to read the inscriptions. But they were there and remarkable well preserved. The light that day was really dim, it was overcast and a typical wintry day. however with Aaron’s help and a torch we were able to pick out the inscriptions. Towards the bottom of the headstone we had problems as part of the inscription was lower than the level of the grass…….. And amazingly it was not just Thomas Baldry who was buried here….<\/div>\n
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Thomas Baldry was born in 1733 in Roydon, Norfolk. On 24 May 1759 he married Elizabeth Wicks in the Parish Church, Roydon and they had ten children together: Elizabeth, Susanna, Sarah, Mary, Thomas, Samuel, John, Ann, Martha and Benjamin.<\/p>\n

Thomas passed away on 5 January 1809. The death duty records show that his occupation was farmer. He was laid to rest at St Remigius Churchyard with his wife Elizabeth and children William, Samuel and Martha.<\/p>\n

(Of note is that William, Samuel and Martha died 1802 – 1803 which may have been due to yellow fever as there was an outbreak in Norfolk at that time.)<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

The Inscription reads……<\/strong><\/p>\n

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In memory of Thomas Baldry who died Jan 13th (or 30th) 1809 aged 76 years. Also Elizabeth his wife who died April 12th 1793 aged 55 years. Also William their son April 4th 1802 aged 22 years. Also Samuel their son who died May 24th 1803 aged 33 years. Also Martha their daughter who died Oct 2nd 1803 (remainder of inscription is below ground – Martha was 28 years old)<\/p>\n

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It seems tragedy hit them very hard……..Martha was married to William Horne and had at least one child that I have found, Sophia 1798-1822 was married to a William Harpur and she too died very young at the age of 20, and so far I have discovered no children for Sophia and William,<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

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Find a grave memorial<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/div>\n

https:\/\/www.findagrave.com\/memorial\/234648482\/thomas-baldry<\/a><\/p>\n

Thomas and Elizabeth are my 4 x great grandparents………<\/p>\n

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Epilogue…….<\/p>\n

Andrew has a wealth of local knowledge and has passed some interesting information to us on the Baldry family. He mentioned that at one time a branch of the family ran a business called ‘Baldry’s Yard and that the place still has it’s name on the side of the building and the door and promised to take us there on our way back to the church. It was still raining heavily still cold and we could nor resist. Here are some photo’s….<\/p>\n

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Andrew sent this wonderful image of the front door still with the stained glass<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Meeting Andrew was terrific and I would like to thank him here for his wonderful hospitality and generosity in helping with this Tale from the ancestor’s<\/strong><\/p>\n

I had hoped to visit Diss cemetery to find the buriel plots for William Aadms and Sophia Baldry, but time and the weather had defeated us…..only temporarilly though…. I hope to be back later in 2022 between artist in residence projects. I know very little about William and Sophia but there is a nagging feeling of something with Sophia, and I cannot quite put my finger on it, and certainly\u00a0 not to the extent of the overwhelming desire to tease back my grandmother Rose’s story…..but something is there….<\/p>\n

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And so what comes next<\/strong><\/p>\n

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Well I still have questions, uppermost is the letter Rose would have to have acquired giving her permission to marry, and now that I know where Rose Alice and Sam are buried I intend to visit and take some photo’s. In most cases and apart from Thomas and Elizabeth whoose headstone is still in relatively good condition there are no memorial headstones or plaques on any of their graves, something I would like to put right, even though I am not religious. I also have a return visit to Great Yarmouth in mind to find the plot locations of Sophia Baldry and William Adams and if possible to locate the buriel plots for my maternal line that I have so far discovered.\u00a0 This is my history, this is who I am, where I came from. Their stories, their tragedies are mine too. The search for who we are is a potent search, it is about self discovery. So I will continue to tease as much of their lives back from mists of the past as I can. Indeed it has become a part of who I am as an artist and this documenting is in the truest sense a work of art……<\/p>\n

And a final word…<\/strong><\/p>\n

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The story is not closed I have arrange to meet newly found cousins as a result of this research and another visit to Norfolk is planned for later in the year …….<\/p>\n

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The case of an unknown photograph…..   At the outset of this I want to say a big thank you to my co conspirator Carole who has been a veritable whirlwind of insight with the ability to unearth details I thought completely lost forever all the find a grave memorials have been created by Carole….. […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2746","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-tales-from-the-ancestors"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2746","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2746"}],"version-history":[{"count":116,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2746\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3163,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2746\/revisions\/3163"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2746"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2746"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/chrishankey-artist.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2746"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}